Aditivi

[ILuzoriu]

Vroiam sa aud si parerea vostra despre aditivi,daca cineva a incercat vreunul,care a fost rezultatul....
Eu tocmai am incercat sambata unul,dupa sute de pagini de post-uri citite pe forumurile de tuning italiene m-am decis la sintoflon,un produs pe baza de teflon care se zice ca ar fi cel mai bun,alaturi de zx1.
Ce pot sa spun e ca mi se pare ca masina a devenit mai prompta la regimuri joase si oarecum mai \"fluida\".Si nu cred ca e doar o impresie...
Niste teste facute cea mai prestigioasa revista de tuning de-aici zic ca s-ar \"castiga\" pana la 5 cai...De fapt e impropriu spus castigi,niciodata un aditiv nu sa-ti dea cv in plus,in schimb te ajuta sa-i \"recastigi\" pe cei pierduti prin uzura motorului...
Ah,am mai incercat unul(pe calibra),ceramiq power liquid se numea,costa o groaza de bani (80 euro) ,si sincer sa fiu n-am vazut nici o diferenta
in fine,astept si alte pareri,pro si contra

[TNos]

sunt buni aditivii...pt ulei,benzina pt cresterea cifrei octanice...fac chestii misto...merita banii...

[ace2003]

Mai documenteaza-te - din cite am citi eu - teflonul nu e bun deloc...

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
By Ed Hackett

Edits: v1.0 First there was 1.0. Before that there was darkness.
v1.1 Change in description of viscosity.
v1.2 Updated info on AMSOIL (courtesy of Morgan McArthur )

Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in
discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about motorcycles
or cars. The following article is intended to help you make a choice based
on more than the advertising hype.

Oil companies provide data on their oils most often referred to as
\"typical inspection data\". This is an average of the actual physical and a
few common chemical properties of their oils. This information is
available to the public through their distributors or by writing or
calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular,
premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil
is not on the list get the data from the distributor and use what I have
as a data base.

This article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a
motor oil readily available to the public: viscosity, viscosity index
(VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc.

Viscosity is a measure of the \"flowability\" of an oil. More specifically,
it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of
shearing stress dependent on flow, and then to offer continued resistance
to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils
a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An
oil with too low a viscosity can shear and lose film strength at high
temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper
parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E.
(Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to \"real\"
viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements
are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range
are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil
meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for
Winter use.

The following chart shows the relationship of \"real\" viscosity to their
S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is
also shown.

__________________________________________________ _____________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| __________________________________________________ ______ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|___________________ _____| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
__________________________________________________ ____________
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C

Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base
(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms
up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to
flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin
to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as
it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned
only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of
looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that
will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they
should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span
of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to
encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you
will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The
polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking
and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics
excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel
engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity
range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown
due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the
additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the
best.

Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void
warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that
reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a
heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do
the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity
index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no
viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow
your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate
for your vehicle.

Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in
viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers
indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change.
The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil
that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within
a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists
thermal breakdown.

Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can
be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the
greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high
temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash
point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The
higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent
possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.

Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no
movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is
especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping
temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at
which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not
given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F
above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is
in degrees F.

% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A
high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine.
Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with
a low ash content.

% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti-wear
additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal
contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will
rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to
prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an
automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use.
Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged
cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content.
More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if
the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content
can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling.

The Data:
Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available

Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc

20W-50
AMSOIL (old) 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
AMSOIL (new) 157 507 -44 --- ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12

20W-40
AMSOIL 124 500 -49 --- ---
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---

15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---

5W-50
Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10
Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---

5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---

15W-40
AMSOIL (old) 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
AMSOIL (new) 164 462 -49 --- ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13

10W-30
AMSOIL (old) 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
AMSOIL (new) 162 520 -76 --- ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12

5W-30
AMSOIL (old) 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
AMSOIL (new) 186 464 -76 --- ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12

All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle
manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are \"good
enough\", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake.

The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their
superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very
low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature
flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to
traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is
justified in your application.

The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers
(typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles)
are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the
engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust
free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles,
or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe
service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be
run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems.
They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent
that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible
help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car
or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended
drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers
make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.

Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great
lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's
requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect
of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting
separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and
prevent the oil from performing to specification.

The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what
makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and
quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined
with the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the
reputation of the oil among others who use it should help you make an
informed choice.

Eu am pus pe un Tico o sticluta de aditiv STP Octane BOOSTER la juma' de rezervor si vreu sa-ti spun ca pur si simplu rupea masinutza!La schimbarea a1a-a2a si a2a-a3a scartaiau cauciucurile in mers,am scos suta in 12,5 atunci,pacat ca nu am nici o dovada.E totusi periculos,pt ca-ti poate arde supapele.Spre ex,de atunci a cam inceput sa-i bata un tachet.
Mai stiu de un caz in care unul cu o dacie 1300 si-a bagat kerosen de aviatie ushoara(cifra oct 110) si am mers vreo 8-10km cu ea de rupea dupa care adio segmentzi,adio supape!

[Hondarul]

Nu cred ca se vede vreo diferenta in mers daca folosesti aditivii cum scrie pe sticla, adica o sticlutza la un plin. Ca doar sunt facuti pt a curata instalatia de alimentare, nu ???

[viviesp]

nu stiu de ce, dar pari foarte multumit ca ai reusit sa scoti suta in 12,5.

Hehe,adica ce vrei sa spui?Pai incearca tu cu un Tico normal si daca scoti suta in mai putin de 13-13,5,eu ma fac popa.Tico scoate suta oficial in 18,1,ceea ce e mult exagerat spre rau,zic eu,normal scoate peste 14,dar cu aditivul ala si cu jiglerul marit(consuma 10%) am reusit sa scot cam 12-12,5,ceea ce pt un motor de 800cmc 48cp eu zic ca e f f putin.Novele tunate la 95cp scot cam 11-11,5 destul de greu,asha ca de ce n-ash fi multumit?Ti-am zis, pacat ca nu am dovada.

[ILuzoriu]

Originally Posted by \"ace2003\"

Mai documenteaza-te - din cite am citi eu - teflonul nu e bun deloc...

Crede-ma ca m-am documentat destul,mai putin din articole si mai mult din cele scrise de oameni care au folosit efectiv produse de genul asta pe masinile lor (de exemplu sintoflonul a aparut pe piata italiana de vreo 2 ani,iar in acest timp s-au scris mii de posturi pe forumurile de profil)...
Oricum,parerea mea la cativa mii de km dupa ce l-am folosit(intre timp am facut si un drum in tara,m-am intors chiar ieri) e pe deplin pozitiva.Ce am cumparat eu nu are nici o leg cu octane booster sau alte produse de genul asta,poate m-am exprimat eu gresit la inceput,nu este un aditiv,ci un fel de \"detergent\" care are si rolul de protectie.
Aaa,in afara de faptul ca motorul merge mai \"rotund\",o alta certitudine este reducerea consumului.Este a 3-a oara cand vin in tara cu masina asta,si in mod clar in consuma mai putin.Nu va ganditi la minuni,dar la un drum de peste 2.000 km se simte.
O zi buna tuturor...

[Marian20]

mndeah aditivi cu teflon sunt intradevar buni daca vrei sa vinzi masina... in nici un caz pt uz personal pt ca teflonul ala se aseaza pe motor si nu mai poate fi curatat ceea ce duce la o serie de probleme in momentul in care apare o problema la segmenti sau alte componente din blocul motor...

[BigMac]

Originally Posted by \"Marian20\"

mndeah aditivi cu teflon sunt intradevar buni daca vrei sa vinzi masina... in nici un caz pt uz personal pt ca teflonul ala se aseaza pe motor si nu mai poate fi curatat ceea ce duce la o serie de probleme (...)

Mda, asa stiam si eu..
Am folosit cu rezultate bune un produs numit Mecacyl (25 euro doza), e un super-lubrifiant. Elimina mult din frecarile motorului, se simte diferenta. Se reduce lejer si consumul.

[aleks]

Ati folosit dura-lube? aveti idee de diferente fata de un motor care ruleaza fara aditiv? chiar exista diferente sau e numai reclama?

[Catalyn]

folosesc aditivi intodeauna....nu pt a \"creste\" puterea ci pentru a mai proteja motorul...se stie ca benzina noastra nu este asa calitativa (n.n sunt benzinar) de altfel diferentele intre benzinarii le face aditivul si culoarea lor ..ca benzina in mare parte toti o iau din Petrobrazi..daca ai un motor \"stoch\" si tii la el dar pe de alta parte il mai si ucizi e bine sa-i mai dai si delicatesuri...aditivii se impart in mai multe categorii..de curatat, de marit cifra octanica...antiiinghet...etc se recomanda utilizarea dupa cele scrise pe eticheta de obicei se pune un flacon la un plin si se recomanda daca te tine buzunarul sa repeti procedura....referitor la aditivii pe baza de teflon nu pot sa-mi dau cu parerea ca pina acum am avut retineri in al utiliza...multi spun ca fac minuni...cert este ca sunt pe piata de ceva timp si unii folosesc cu regularitate...totusi merg pe ideea de a folosii un ulei ff bun in loc de a pune ulei si aditiv.

[X-Ray-Eyes]

Eu am incercat 2+2 aditiv ptr ulei motor.
Parerea mea ... creste vascozitatea uleiului , in cazul in care iti bate vreun tachet ( asa am patit eu la motorul de 1.6 folosind Valvoline 0W40 - de care sunt in continuare foarte multumit si sincer nu l-as schimba pentru nici un Castrol sau Aral sau mai stiu eu ce ) acest aditiv incarca respectivul tachet mult mai repede si elimina bataile din motor , avand un \" aspect \" sau \" prezentare \" daca pot spune ca a prenandezului.
Am incercat Dura-Lube - Beton ... dupa 50.000 Km de forja la 1.6 pot spune ca motorul era lacrima de curat in interior ! Si in plus de asta , reprizele de atac se imbunatateau - Nu discutam cu Cielo , Supernova , masini care aveau tot 75 Cp , din treapta a 3-a .
Dupa ultimile mele informatii , exista un aditiv pentru ulei ( Metabond ) care reduce frecarea cu pana la 33 % !!! Asta inseamna o crestere a performantelor masinii si a vitezei maxime .
Aditivii de benzina sau motorina au rolul de a creste cifra octanica , si facand lucrul asta , are loc o ardere mult mai ampla . Dar marind cifra octanica , se consuma mai multa benzina ... asta e calculat facand plinul la un BMW 520 6 in linie , 24 supape de la Constanta la Craiova , cu benzina de 98 de la OMV si intors cu 95b tot de la OMV .
ca sa nu mai spun ca la o cifra octanica care depaseste 100 , puteti avea surprize ( pistoane topite , supape bubuite si indoite , segmenti uzati ... etc. ) .

[UniculSGM]

Benzina cu cifra octanica mare nu topeste pistoanele, si nici nu arde supapele.
Daca se foloseste benzina de 98-100 la un motor cu un raport de comprimare mic, de ex 8.5- 9:1, nu fa fi nici o diferenta fatza de benzina de 95.
Daca se foloseste 95 intr-un motor comprimat, la 12:1 de ex, vor apare detonatii, care pot topii pistoanele.
La un motor comprimat, o benzina de cifra octanica ridicata mareste mult puterea motorului.

[X-Ray-Eyes]

Originally Posted by \"B-34-SGM\"

Benzina cu cifra octanica mare nu topeste pistoanele, si nici nu arde supapele. ( ... )
Daca se foloseste 95 intr-un motor comprimat, la 12:1 de ex, vor apare detonatii, care pot topii pistoanele.

Te contrazici singur !
Si pistoane topite si supape facute spirala am vazut eu in motor de Lada dupa ce a bagat tipul kerosen de la Kogalniceanu si benzina in proportie de 1:1 !