Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Pentru simplul motiv ca locul unde se face R&D-ul pentru dezvoltarea de noi softuri SKN, este dotat cu un dyno chiar foarte performant, deci la ce mi-ar folosi inca unul ????
Plus ca istoria a dovedit a aceste softuri sunt foarte performante si fac fata competitie.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

In locul tau m-as abtine. Sincer pune patura pe tzambal si lasa...

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Se pare ca topicul asta nu e pentru cine s-a pregatit si pentru cine s-a nimerit.


Un bun exemplu ar fi acesta in care fisa dyno ridica mari semne de intrebare.

https://forum.4tuning.ro/678-powertec.../new-post.html

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Replica mea pentru acel topic este aceasta si imi pare rau ca oamenii de acolo nu pot suporta o discutie tehnica incercand sa duca totul in derizoriu singura sansa sa ascunda mizeria sub pres.


Nu e vorba de Maha e vorba de bitnet&co si latraii.
Pe principiul chelul isi pune mana in cap reactionati si voi aici:

https://forum.4tuning.ro/678-powertec...ml#post5414657

, iar exemplele voastre sunt menite sa va acuze nu sa va disculpe.
Pierderile afisate... ce e asta, poate pierderile masurate.

Asa este afiseaza, de fapt masoara pierderi mairi insa pierderea se judeca in concordanta cu viteza.(macar atat trebuia sa stiti)

78 hp pierdere la tine la 158Km/h
in fisele celelalte ai pierdere de ;
82hp pierdere la 206Km/h pentru GTI MK6
76hp pierdere la 224Km/h pentru Scirocco

Imi cer scuze daca voi credeti ca am ceva cu voi, dar eu discut despre prostiile pe care le afisati si sustineti.
Oricum sunt convins ca nu aveti un proces verbal de tarare, de punere in functiune a dyno din partea producatorului sa a unei firme autorizate MAHA.

Si ca sa vedeti o fisa dyno a unui tuner ai mult decat consacrat in zona VW am sa va expun o fisa a unui S3 tunat de un tuner grec cu Maha.
La ei la 4x4 nu ajung pierderile la cat le afisati voi la viteza apropiata.
Ai sa vezi ca la 160Km/h are tot 80hp pierdere ca la tine. Cum iti explici asta ca la aceeasi viteza ai pierdere de 4x4 tot pe MAHA si dupa cum vezi oameni afiseaza si Qv pe fisa.
Iti spun eu sigur ca firma asta care a obtinut rezultatul din graficul asta nu are nevoie sa fure.

Si nu mai stergeti posturile care sunt la subiect!
Sau inainte sa emiti ineptiile pe care le sustii invata sa citesti o fisa dyno si o sa vezi ca devi penibil in fata celor care inteleg asta.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Is… forgetting everything you learned about all other wheel power calculating dynos. This is what we had to do, Joe and I have been using other dynos for years to tune and test cars and we put up some resistance at first until we unlearned what we had gotten so used to.

Other dynos can only give you wheel power #s. and this is ok if all your going to do Is look for the gain from a modification compared to stock, and you don’t need or care to know what the real power is. The wheel numbers are completely arbitrary.

One of the most common miscalculations in determining horse power was guessing the drive train loss.
Most people think that there car has a certain percentage of drive train loss, in fact drive train loss is not one set percentage its multiplication, the most common example is a person that has had there car dynoed at a shop with a DynoDynamics or a Dynojet or other simalar, will say something like… my car dynoed at 280 whp and the dyno operator told me my car is approximately 25% drive train loss, so my car must have 350hp at the crank.
First question we usually ask is At what RPM. if your peak HP is at 5000 RPM then you drive train loss is much less than it is at 7000RPM so for example lets say your drive train loss is 65 hp at 5000 rpm and it is 80 at 7000RPM then you have to know what the loss is at the exact RPM that you are making your max HP, or your #s are again completely arbitrary. And with all the different wheels brakes, light weight drive lines, even tires,,.. with out the ability to dyno you driveling you have no way of knowing what your real Hp # is.
This is why we have no question about high or low reading dyno we can always throw a stock car on and compare it to the factory SAE #s
A stock e46 M3 will put between 332 and 334 crank horse power on the MaHa dyno all day, factory #s 333.0 Hp, YES its that accurate.

Ti-am mai spus, pe internet gasesti o gramada de explicatii la nelamuririle tale, cauta-le singur, eu am obosit sa le caut pentru tine, sunt un simplu utilizator de stand MAHA si nu fac parte din echipa de proiectanti, sunt detalii tehnice pe care nu mi le-am propus sa le cunosc. Nu mai abera cu viteza si pierderile ca esti pe langa rau de tot. Cum poti compara doua grafice cu viteze diferite la care s-a masurat puterea maxima fara sa stii treapta de viteza in care s-au realizat masuratorile? Ti-am mai zis ca tu compari mere cu pere dar nu vrei (nu poti) sa intelegi.

Standul tau, "poate cel mai performant din lume",cum estimeaza puterea la motor? Pe ce criterii?

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Si ca sa mai diversificam, sa ma apar si eu ca tot m-a acuzat Racing Code si sa mai dam jos si Mustang-ul ala de pe piedestalul imaginar:

I Hear That Dynojet Dynos Inflate Numbers, Is That True?

Postby TillmanSpeed on Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:35 pm

Absolutely not. A good amount of thought was used by competing dyno brands to think of different reasons to steer customers from Dynojet. Every single brand of dyno has a thick packet (about 15+ pages) of reasons why they're the best around.... except Dynojet.

When we were researching the best dyno to choose while we were in the market, everyone had their opinions on everyone else's dynos. The common misconception is "Dynojet numbers read higher, therefore misleading the consumer."

Let's start with the facts. The largest competition for Dynojet would be Mustang Dyno. They claim that the inertia dyno (referred to as non-loaded style dyno) that is manufactured by Dynojet is inferior to their eddy-current dyno (referred to as loaded style dyno). Traditionally, Mustang Dyno produced eddy-current and Dynojet produced inertia dynos. It is a fact that BOTH Dynojet and Mustang dyno manufacture and sell inertia style dynos today. If inertia is so bad, than why would Mustang Dyno produce them? Dynojet offers an eddy-current ADD-ON, which we have, that allows you to still utilize the same eddy-current braking for loaded sweep and step testing, and then turn it off with a click of a button!

Justin Starkey, of VMP Tuning said it best "Mustang Dynos can be tuned, and some tuners spend more time "tuning" the dyno than the car. Dynojets can not be "tuned" to read higher or lower."

The rumor is that Dynojet can "mess with" or "skew" numbers so that they are higher, and in the end make the customer happy, and their dealers look better. This is untrue. The only manipulation of numbers that can be done in Dynojet's software is correction factors. The shop can switch from SAE, STD, and a few other correction factors that take into consideration Altitude, Climate, Temperature, etc. These correction factors read within approximately 2% of each other. Most experienced custom tuning shops use SAE corrections, as per the Society of Automotive Engineers. The electronic stack on the Dynojet automatically takes these parameters and factors your correction and even prints them on EVERY DYNO SHEET. Dynojet owners CANNOT remove the correction factor and smoothing level from your sheet. This is so that dealers, racers, and consumers can compare apples to apples. DYNOJET DOES NOT USE A CORRECTION FACTOR TO ACCOUNT FOR NOR CONVERT LOAD AND NON-LOADED PULLS.

Keep in mind that this weather-station box is standard on all Dynojet models. It is an OPTION with Mustang Dyno. How many un-educated MD owners didn't opt for the additional costs because they had no knowledge of what it does?

Air fuel ratios, timing, etc. Can all still be dialed in 100% correctly on an inertia dyno. The difference is that you have a faster pull, and a smaller window. This means that the tuner must be fairly good. Most end up prefering the Dynojet brand for life after their experience. In most cases, the air fuel ratio and boost levels are IDENTICAL when run back to back loaded and then unloaded on our dyno. What does that prove? I know what it dis-proves! :D

Another classic quote from Justin @ VMP Tuning: "To further lend credibility to Dynojet...remember the 99 Cobra fiasco? The cars did not make the power that was claimed, they were only putting down 250-260RWHP on Dynojets (the industry standard). The cars were rated at 320 crank HP, with a 15% drivetrain loss they should put down at least 270 HP at the wheels. Attention was brought to the issue, and Ford acknowledged it and fixed it. Do you see people suing Ford because their new Mustang GT only made 220RWHP on a Mustang Dyno? Nope. No one would take them seriously. Ford rates the car at 300 crank HP, and it truly makes that much power or more when ran on a real dyno."

The Dynojet 224xLC is the most reliable and efficient dyno on the market. The inertia part of the dyno only has two bearings and one roller. No other working parts that can wear out, sensors to calibrate, etc. Real simple, the weight of the drum, accellerated over a period of time, and that's the science. It's exact math. We know the weight of the roller, the time that it takes to get to a certain speed, and that's the method. And if we want to, we can put load against it, too.

EVERY DYNOJET READS WITHIN 1% OF THE NEXT DYNOJET. Can other brands say that? No. Try it out and see the results.

The software and Datalogging capabilities speak for itself. Dynojet is the only company with an OBDII datalogging system that can be printed right on the graph!

We at Tillman Speed put alot of research in when we were deciding on which dyno was right for us. And we believe, and so do others, that Dynojet was the best decision that we could have made.

Just as Honda, Kawasaki, Ford, Harley Davidson, and the THOUSANDS of other Dynojets that are currently up and running.

There is none other like it."

End of story.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Domnilor daca aveti ceva de spus va las sa continuati discutia si sa dati explicatii pe intelesul tuturor si nu copy/paste aberante.
Este un subiect punctual care merita sa primeasca un raspuns.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

ca de obicei cand nu mai are argumente schimba topicul si scoate la iveala rahatul ala de biblie unde se incadeaza perfect

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Donmilor Ginel alias bitnet,ct77pia, B39738 acel articol pe care nu sunteti in stare sa-l cititi indica un IQ cu mult peste al vostru si va rog sa ma scuzati ca spun asta chiar cu riscul de a le insuma pe ale voastre.
Inainte sa va ganditi si sa va puneti astfel de intrebari raspunsurile erau deja date. Asa ca pentru tot ceea ce e explicat acolo atat de bine si de logic, verificabil in amanunt cu formule fizice de clasa 7 nu pot sa ma aplec sa va mai dau inca un raspuns. Acela este raspunsul complet si daca aveti argumente tehnice puteti sa-l demontati altfel continuati sa latrati, tare, mai tare, puteti sa faceti si ca lupu si ca trenu-n gara...
Stiu si ma bucur ca intrebarea mea legitima, v-a enervat, asta insemna ca am atins un punct sensibil si acum este mai greu sa deformati adevarul.
Ala rau fuge de tamaie voi fugiti de Biblia Dyno:
https://forum.4tuning.ro/175-dyno-tun...rile-dyno.html
Dar eu nu am venit sa ridic in slavi Mustang si nici sa critic dinojet sau maha si vad ca dai intr-unl tipa doi precum ceata lui Pitigoi.
Intrebarea mea nu vizeaza maci de dyno ci anumite fise care in opinia mea si a fizicii denatureaza adevarul, dar intr-o directie care va convine voua mereu, fapt care ma face sa cred ca zicala: "Omul sfinteste locul" are si reversul medaliei.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Nu te mai apleca, ai vazut cat de periculos este, nici doctorul Bacalbasa nu o sa te mai poata repara.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

dc?

mi se pare normal ca unul care se ocupa de softuri si de dyno sa cunoasca ceea ce foloseste! mi se pare amuzant ceea ce ai spus, este un downgrade.

Re: How to Lie With a Dyno
 

Tu stii totul despre masina pe care o conduci? Instalatia electrica, management motor, transmisie, etc... Si daca nu stii nu inseamna ca esti un sofer prost, poti fi unul foarte bun.