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Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
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N-am zis niciunde ca motoarele de pe Honda sau alte masini europene sunt de cacao sau ca nu au meritele lor, sau potential de tuning, s.a.m.d. Fiecare tip de motor are meritul lui, si o 'strategie' diferita de a scoate CP, iar a raporta puterea la cilindree nu are rost... Quote:
Astra-ul e un swap mai "traditional" ca sa zic asa. |
Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
Am si eu o intrebare: despre ce tip de motoare vorbim ?
La inceput, aveam impresia ca vorbim de motoare de serie. Daca asta e situatia, as putea spune ca acest raport - CP/l - arata cat de "rafinat" este un motor. In Europa si in Asia - fortati oarecum de limitarea numarului de masini per km de drum (mai pe romaneste, de "buzunar") - oamenii au trebuit sa-si foloseasca inteligenta pentru a "inghesui" cat mai multi CP intr-un motor cat mai mic. Americanii nu prea au avut asemenea off-uri - cu exceptia crizelor petroliere - asa ca s-au rezumat la ce stiau cel mai bine: motoare mari. Oricum despre motoarele americane numai "rafinate" nu se poate spune ca sunt. Insane, sa nu ma intelegi gresit. Dac-as trai si eu in State, mai mult ca sigur ca prima masina - la loc de cinste in garaj - ar fi un Mustang BOSS 302 '69 / '70. Asa, traind in Iuropa, a trebuit sa ma adaptez... :) Pentru cine e interesat sa dezbata in continuarea subiectul - care s-a cam transformat in motoare US vs motoare Euro/Jap - am adaugat o lista a premiilor "Engine of the year" (va las pe voi sa gasiti motoarele americane): 2006 Winners Best New Engine: Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger Best Fuel Economy: Toyota 1.5-litre Hybrid Synergy Drive Best Performance Engine: BMW 5-litre V10 Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: Toyota 1.5-litre Hybrid Synergy Drive 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Volkswagen 2-litre FSI Turbo 2-litre to 2.5-litre: Subaru 2.5-litre Turbo 2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin Turbo Diesel 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW M 3.2-litre Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10 International Engine of the Year 2005: BMW 5-litre V10 2005 Winners Best New Engine: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) Best Fuel Economy: Toyota 1.5-litre Hybrid Synergy Drive (Prius) Best Performance Engine: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA (Insight) 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Fiat-GM 1.3-litre Diesel 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: Toyota 1.5-litre Hybrid Synergy Drive (Prius) 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Volkswagen 2-litre FSI Turbo (Golf GTi, Audi A3, A4) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: Honda 2.2-litre Diesel (Accord, CR-V, FR-V) 2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre Twin-Turbo Diesel (535d) 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3) Above 4-litre: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) International Engine of the Year 2005: BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) 2004 Winners Best New Engine: Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive Best Fuel Economy: Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive Best Performance Engine: Mercedes-AMG 65 (S65, CL65) Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA (Insight) 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Honda 1.3-litre IMA (Civic) 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Honda 2-litre (S2000) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: BMW 2.5-litre (325i, X3, 525i Z4) 2.5-litre to 3-litre: Mazda RENESIS Rotary (RX-8) 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3) Above 4-litre: Volkswagen 5-litre V10 TDi (Touareg, Phaeton) International Engine of the Year 2004: Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive 2003 Winners Best New Engine: Mazda RENESIS Rotary (RX-8) Best Fuel Economy: Honda 1.3-litre IMA (Civic) Best Performance Engine: Mercedes-AMG 55 (CL55, E55, S55, SL55) Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA (Insight) 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Honda 1.3-litre IMA (Civic) 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: MINI Supercharged 1.6-litre (Cooper S) 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Honda 2-litre (S2000) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: BMW 2.5-litre (325i, 525i, Z4) 2.5-litre to 3-litre: Mazda RENESIS Rotary (RX-8) 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre (M3) Above 4-litre: Volkswagen 5-litre V10 TDi (Touareg, Phaeton) International Engine of the Year 2003: Mazda RENESIS Rotary (RX-8) 2002 Winners Best New Engine: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic Best Fuel Economy: Honda 1-litre IMA Best Concept: GM AUTOnomy Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Honda 1.3-litre IMA 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: Toyota 1.8-litre VVTL-i 190 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Honda 2-litre (S2000) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: PSA Peugeot-Citroën 2.2-litre HDi 2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre Above 4-litre: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic International Engine of the Year 2002: BMW 4.4-litre Valvetronic 2001 Winners Best New Engine: BMW 3.2-litre Best Fuel Economy: Honda 1-litre IMA Best Concept: Saab SVC Sub 1-litre: Honda 1-litre IMA 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Volkswagen Group 1.4-litre TDi 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: BMW 1.8-litre Valvetronic 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Honda 2-litre (S2000) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: PSA Peugeot-Citroën 2.2-litre HDi 2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 3.2-litre Above 4-litre: Ferrari 5.5-litre International Engine of the Year 2001: BMW 3.2-litre 2000 Winners Best Eco-friendly: Toyota Hybrid Prius Best Fuel Economy: Honda Hybrid 1-litre Insight Best Concept: DaimlerChrysler Necar 4 Sub 1-litre: Honda Hybrid 1-litre Insight 1-litre to 1.4-litre: Toyota 1.3-litre VVTi 1.4-litre to 1.8-litre: Honda 1.8-litre (Accord) 1.8-litre to 2-litre: Honda 2-litre (S2000) 2-litre to 2.5-litre: Alfa Romeo 2.5-litre V6 2.5-litre to 3-litre: BMW 3-litre TDi 3-litre to 4-litre: BMW 4-litre V8 TDi Above 4-litre: Ferrari 5.5-litre V12 International Engine of the Year 2000: Honda Hybrid 1-litre Insight 1999 Winners Best Eco-friendly: Toyota Prius Hybrid Best Fuel Economy: Volkswagen 1.2-liter TDi Best Concept: DaimlerChrysler Necar 4 Sub 1-litre: Toyota 1-liter 1-liter to 1.4-litre: Volkswagen 1.2-liter TDi 1.4-liter to 1.8-litre: Toyota Prius Hybrid 1.8-liter to 2-litre: Volkswagen 1.9-liter 110PS TDi 2-liter to 2.5-litre: Audi 2.5-liter V6 TDi 2.5-liter to 3-litre: BMW 3-liter TDi 3-liter to 4-litre: BMW 4-liter V8 TDi Above 4-litres: BMW 5.34-liter V12 International Engine of the Year 1999: Toyota Yaris 1-liter Ce mi se pare amuzant este ca nici la categoria "Above 4-litres" nu sunt motoare US... |
Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
Pana acum subiectul nu era legat deloc de americane vs. altele, tu esti cel care pune problema... Iar pana acum toata lumea a vorbit de motoare de serie.
Din cate inteleg din ce zici tu, practic putere nu, consum, asa si asa (in orice caz nu in acelasi timp cu putere), dar avem rafinament! Ca alt adjectiv mai obiectiv nu exista... Si daca sustii ca e vorba de adaptare la conditii, nu inseamna ca a te adapta la conditii inferioare = rafinament sau superior. E ca si cum ai zice ca politistii romani sunt cei mai rafinati din UE, ca nu au bani de Mercedes si BMW si s-au adaptat la Dacii... Iar clasamentul cu motorul anului e buna... Ai vazut cine face clasamentul? O firma din UK, iar cei care voteaza sunt in majoritate din pietele unde motoarele mici sunt la moda... Daca te uiti mai atent, chiar si categoriile iti arata asta: 6 categorii sub 4l, 1 peste 4l. Pe piata americana, iese un motor - doua pe an maxim sub 4l, si, intr-adevar, alea nu sunt chiar cele mai reusite... Sunt insa foarte multe motoare mari bune: motoarele din seria LSx, 6.2l Hemi, Viper v10, 4.6l de la Ford, etc, etc... Iar de la europene, BMW v10 e clar un motor super, v12-urile de la Ferarri, V8-ul de la Mercedes, etc... Si in clasamentul ala, nu ma mira ca nu apare Corvette-ul si al sau LS7, pana la urma aceeasi oameni au votat care au reusit sa scoata ca motor al anului I3-ul de pe Yaris. Citeste niste teste comparative, sau cauta timpii la acceleratie in linie dreapta, 0-60, Nurburgring, etc... O sa fii surprins ca per Nurburgring, C6 Z06 a scos timpi mai buni decat, M5, M6, AMG, M3 CSL, Ferrari, etc, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times |
Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
INSAne, motorul Viper V10 era conceputa de Lamborghini :lol:
Ok, nu vreau sa te enervez ;) Si eu ma miram de ce sunt atat de putine motoare americane pe lista. Fiecare isi lauda produsele sale, de ex. Top Gear. E buna emisiunea, dar cateodata se exagereaza si ei. Astonul si Lotusul fiind cele mai tari masini... :rolleyes2 iar Porsche Cayenne cel mai urat SUV :x |
Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
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http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/judges06.html Toate cele bune ! |
Re: Lamurire: De unde vine argumentul...
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Pietele unde motoarele mari sunt la moda: SUA, Australia. Pietele unde motoarele mici sunt la moda: restul. Aduna numarul de persoane de pe fiecare piata si o sa vezi ca balanta atarna greu spre motoare mici. Si di48lo, nu ma deranjeaza deloc ca motorul e de la Lamborghini, pt ca nu conteaza... E un motor bun, si basta. |
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