Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

E fantastic de relativa treaba sa spui care dintre categoriile de mai sus de masini sunt mai fiabile.....daca e sa vb de electrica(pt ca practic numai aia se strica la o masina, si din vina la aia se mai strica si restul) din cate am vazut chestiile electronice japoneze sunt intr-adevar mai fiabile.....adica Mitsubishi si Akai cam bate Bosch sau Siemens :-P
Daca ar fi vb de motociclete, atunci raspunsul ar fi si mai simplu: "Japo rules"
.....la cata forja ia cate un ss de 600 sau chiar si un 750 sau miar si merg ca noi dupa 100mii km(ca acuma doar nu o sa credeti ca aia 30-40mii cand sunt la vanzare sunt majoritatea reali) si mai mult, cu intretinere minima!

Cat priveste strict un set motor, parca as inclina spre germane, dar nu-s sigur....:???:

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

La Toyota, sezonul rechemarilor in service inca nu s-a terminat : Toyota to recall 1.13 million Corollas and Matrix over electronic problems

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Ha. pe tema asta se face tam tam acum, oricum faza cu pedala s-a dovetit o facatura anti Toyota.
Da si tu un search sa vezi cum aproape toti producatorii fac recall. Inca Toyota sufla si in iaurt acum da pe VAG il doare undeva de problemele pe care le au, ca de... La EOS ploua in absolut toate si nu a auzit nimeni de recall, de problema trapelor la Q7, la Mazda problemele noului motor diesel, casetele de directie de la Grande Punto si exemple sunt cu sutele dar tapul ispasitor normal este Toyota, ca doar era nr.1 si trebuia sa i se dea la capatana.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Asta vroiam sa zic si eu, faptul ca un producator face recall nu e un lucru rau ci e bun, rezolva anumite probleme pe gratis. Daca cineva crede ca producatorul care nu face recall este mai bun ca ala care a facut e cel putin NAIV, probleme exista peste tot dar un brand serios si le rezolva, altii se fac ca ploua la unele, la altele nu. Faptul ca astia cheama anumite masini in service si le repara gratis este excelent, probleme au existat la toti dar nu toti au avut bunul simt sa faca asta.

Apropo, ce probleme are Q7 cu trapa ?

cam asta e cu JD Powers
 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...bility-survey/

I conduct a car reliability survey at TrueDelta.com. Since we promptly update our results four times a year, we can report on new models ahead of anyone else. Last year, we announced that the 2009 Jaguar XF was faring poorly. This provoked a blistering backlash from owners at a particular Jaguar forum. In the end, threads on reliability were deleted and future ones all but banned in the interest of preserving what remained of the UK auto industry.


The outraged owners argued that TrueDelta’s results could not be correct, since Jaguar had just been declared the most dependable make by J.D. Power. I pointed out that the VDS covers the third year of ownership, 2006 in that case, and that Jaguar had discontinued, redesigned, or replaced every model in its line save the XJ in the interim. So the results did not apply to the XF, or the current XK for that matter.

Well, J.D. Power has now released the 2010 Vehicle Dependability Survey (VDS), which covers 2007s in their third year of ownership, and, as predicted, the redesigned XK has, all by its lonesome, sunk Jaguar’s ranking from 1st to 23rd. And it’ll only get uglier once the XF is reflected in these stats in another two years.


Many car buyers, though, are much more interested in how cars fare after the 3/36 warranty ends. J.D. Power has no information for them, hoping that car buyers will accept third-year problem frequencies as a sufficient indicator of how a car will perform over the long haul. Unfortunately, in many cases it is not. TrueDelta’s data suggest that all too often cars take a turn for the worse either soon after the warranty ends or after 100,000 miles.

As usual, the public gets brand-level scores rather than model-level scores from J.D. Power. Brand-level scores are of limited use for a car buyer, and can actually misinform as much as they inform. After all, people don’t buy the entire line. They buy a particular model. And the scores of models can vary widely within a brand.

Much is made of which brands did better this year (Porsche, Lincoln), and which did worse (Jaguar). Well, as noted above, the brand averages can be heavily influenced by the introduction of a single new design or the absence of a single old design.

For these and other reasons a focus on model-level scores would be much more valid and useful.

Also worth noting: as in the past most makes are tightly bunched around the average, 155 problems per 100 cars this year. Consumer Reports considers any score within 20 percent of the average in its own survey to be “about average.” Applying this metric to J.D. Power’s results, 21 of the 36 brands are “about average.”

Also worth noting: as in the past most makes are tightly bunched around the average, 155 problems per 100 cars this year. Consumer Reports considers any score within 20 percent of the average in its own survey to be “about average.” Applying this metric to J.D. Power’s results, 21 of the 36 brands are “about average.”

J.D. Power notes that for Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln, and Mercury perceptions of reliability lag reality. No surprise, since (as I’ve found all too often) people often judge (and more often than not reject) data based on how these data fit their perceptions rather than judging their perceptions based on how they fit the data.

J.D. Power’s explicit solution: convince consumers of gains in reliability. The implicit solution: pay to include VDS results in your ads. But are perceptions based on the VDS any more likely to be correct? Or, as seen in the Porsche and Jaguar cases, are they just as often part of the problem?

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Cu amandoua. Masina Q7 - 3.0 TDI - 2008, 40 k km. - iesita din garantie
Explicatie service Porsche Romania - masina a fost spalata prea des si oricum trapele au garantie 10k km :)))) - Tipic romanesc.
Ulterior a facut-o in privat un mecanic tot de la Porsche care ne-a povestit multe, inclusiv toate problemele de fabricatie de care se loveste frecvant la Audi - VW.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

oare nissan se descurca mai bine? cred ca sta catastrofal in comparatie cu grupul vag la ora actuala, tu vorbesti de o piata (ro) unde infinity e aproape inexistent, automat o sa auzi plangan-du-se mai multi proprietari de vag pentru ca ceilalti.... sunt inexistenti
cand se vorbeste de problemele unor masini ar fi bine sa se ia in calcul si fiabilitatea per nr de masini din ambele tabere
de cand coalitia nissan-renault, japonezele au inceput sa scartie rau, si la propriu si la figurat. deja fiabilitatea lor nu mai e deloc un punct forte si asta ar fi o minciuna gogonata sa nu o recunosti.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

O, asta clar, fiabilitatea nu ca nu ar fi punctul lor forte dar nu mai este ce a fost, iar Nissan este o corcitura, la parteaa cu Renault se vad rezultatele, pe partea fara Renault inca stau binisor dar nu exceleaza. Este surprinzator sa vezi cum un Citroen bate japoneze si germane, suntem placut surprinsi de de revenirea Mercedes, etc.
Partea ansoala este ca nu se iau masuri stricte si generale legate de recall.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Si daca s-ar lua, in Romania tot nu se aplica. Ex jantele de aliaj de pe logan, cele de pe care sarea cauciucul. Au fost retrase din tarile vestice si vandute la fraierii de Romani fara sa comenteze nimeni nimic.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

frumos ar fi fost sa fie invers, ca cei de la renault sa aplice politica nissan.
cred ca in segmentul low cost se va vedea cel mai major impact negativ datorita finantarilor slabe pentru dezvoltarea calitatii si materrialelor proaste.... acum cared ca va fi regresul industriei auto
ps: toyota au vreun sistem in care foloseste anumite componente de la masinile uzate pentru cele noi?

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

2800 CS cu 413.000 mile sau 660.000 km !

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Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

ok dar sa vedem ce fiabilitate are un E36..E46..sau E90

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Eu zic ca atat E36 cat si E46 si-au aratat fiabilitatea pana acuma ... facand abstractie de unele cazaturi hingherite si manarite din Romania, care sunt oricum inevitabile. Eu personal am avut E36 320i si l-am vandut la 250.000km cu f. putini bani investiti in masina. Faptul ca la noi, cumparatorii se orienteaza mult mai mult dupa BMW decat ... sa spunem ... Audi sau Mercedes sau alte branduri premium, spune multe despre fiabilitate, costuri de intretinere etc.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Eu zic ca nu spune absolut nimic despre fiabilitate, mai ales ca romania nu este un etalon. Plus ca nu stiu ce statistici ai vazut tu in care romanii cumpara (MULT) mai multe BMW decat Audi.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

touchdown :)

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...-gt-r-mia.html

10-days ago I dropped our GTR off at Nissan of Santa Monica to let them deal with a fuel leak we experienced during some *ahem* spirited driving. Once at the dealer the problem, predictably, could not be repeated and nobody in the GTR program had heard of it. Unlike some other issues we've experienced that the dealer couldn't replicate, Nissan decided to act on our complaint immediately instead of waiting for it to happen again. But as the problem couldn't be duplicated and they have no pool of information on this car from which to draw, they weren't quite sure what they were going to do. After several calls to Nissan brass in the States and Japan a solution was decided upon: Replace everything involved in the fuel / evap system from the driver seat back and ship it back to HQ for analysis. The parts were already in the mail when he called me. The car, they said, would be available the following Wednesday, today.

Well this morning I got another call from our local Nissan shop with more news. When the corporate techs (flown in to diagnose a sick godzilla) were removing the transaxle (!) to replace the fuel tank they noticed some moisture on one of the seals. They wiped it off and road tested the car in an attempt to replicate that leak. No dice. Following precedent set with the fuel system problem, they called HQ and were told to remove the transaxle and ship it back for analysis.

The new gearbox is already en-route, we should have the GTR back on Tuesday unless they decide to replace the engine while they're at it.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...gainagain.html

After 5-fills, at least 2 of them on E, there has been no repeat of the issue. Though it must be said that we are still on break-in mileage for the new transaxle and the miles have been gentle. While we can't be sure of this, it stands to reason that this failure had something to do with our recent repair involving a fuel leak. For that repair the follow was replaced:

Fuel tank assembly

Charcoal canister (evaporative system)

Fuel filler tube

Purge control solenoid

Filler Cap

During this repair-- one that required the removal of the transaxle-- Nissan's techs found some moisture on the removed driveline parts. They cleaned the part, road tested the car and then, when it failed to repeat, requested to exchange the ($13,690-- according to Courtesey Nissan of Texas) part for a new one. This, they said, wouldn't add any time to the repair as they were still waiting on parts to arrive. We've never had any problem to the transaxle, but it wouldn't add any more time so we agreed. (This also prolonged our first transmission oil change, an event that, according to some at NAGTROC.ORG, runs about $1,000.) The only downside to this replacement, on our end, is the repeat of the initial 1,000 mile break-in period.

The final reason for our GT-R's absence was its six-thousand mile service. Total time for this was less than a day and cost $75 in 0W40; $6.95 in filters; $2.65 for a drain washer; and a whopping $248 in labor. Plus tux the total was $339.58. While the service was done the same day, we had to wait until the following Monday to pay for the job; Nissan didn't have pricing information for the 6K service yet. We were, apparently, the first.


Edmunds Inside Line had a long term test GTR that had multiple failures.

Transmission leaked and was replaced. Evap control valve caused multiple check engine lights. Gas tank many times would only accept half a tank of gas and would sometimes spew gas out of the filler cap due to its saddle shape.

In their 15 month test the car was out of service for 37 days. They also commented on how expensive everything was.. such as $200 oil changes and tranny fluid that cost over $100 a bottle.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Intr-adevar nu se cumpara MULT mai multe bavareze decat audiuri, dar se cumpara mai multe, si mai ales second. Eu am avut parte de o statistica cel putin hilara fata de aceste 2 marci: de vo 4-5 am parcat la super-marketuri langa un alt BMW, ba chiar o data intre 2 :-P si numai de 2 ori langa ceva Audi :lol: .....si am fost anu asta de vo 50 de ori in astfel de parcari...so do the math :D

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Dar pe asta o stiti ? :lol:

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Eu am masina la vanzare si ma suna lumea sa dea audi la schimb :lol:

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Wow, asta da argument. Daca stai sa cauti la bazar gasesti multi cu BMW care accepta schimb cu Audi.

Niciodata nu te poti plictisi de forumul asta si argumente care mai de care :rolleyes2.

PS - ca tot a venit vorba, masina ta pare ingrijita, e frumoasa, destul de dotata dar pretul e SF. La banii astia iti cumperi A6 C5, E60, E90 sau E46 cu 5000 euro si mai bagi inca 6000 in el si faci avion, asta daca preferi modelul asta.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

poate e cu 2000 de euro mai mult decat un e46 echipare echivalenta dar e "special edition" plus "INDIVIDUAL" si masina trage grav la caluti ei de 330d :D

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Lasa-l in pace Adi, ca n-o vazut un BMW individual in viata lui decat pe net. Vad ca nici pe mobile n-o cautat sa vada cat costa unul dincolo apoi sa-l compare cu ce vand eu dar asa e romanu' necitit.
Up pentru o masina fiabila, fara audi-uri la schimb ca fac alergie la plasticele vopsite in cauciuc premium :punch:
--
Ontopic, toyota avensis, din masinile cu care am de-aface e cea mai fiabila pana acum.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Am uitat ca ti-ai luat glob de cristal si deja stii ce masini am vazut eu sau nu, sa il stapanesti sanatos :lol:.

PS - de "normal" ce este pretul nu se inghesuie lumea la el si fac pariu ca nu o sa ia in veci 11 000 (11 500 cat a cerut initial) pe el, vorbim peste ceva timp cand pe thread o sa fie 10 000 negociabil si o sa iei undeva la 9000 pe el, fara suparare, eu iti doresc sa il vinzi la 50 000 dar din pacate nu se poate. Nu ma intelegeti gresit, masina este foarte misto pentru un E46 dar nu la banii astia oricat de individual ar fi ea (cu manivela pe spate...). Din cate vad deja ai scazut o mie la pret, more to come ;).

LE - probabil din exces de fiabilitate ai schimbat turbo la 150 000 km dar sunt convins ca era in stare perfecta de functionare dar asa ai vrut tu, sa o vinzi cu turbo nou, nu ca ar fi avut probleme.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Este loc si de negociat dar nu o dau pe un Audi ca doar suna lumea, dar multi sunt romani cunoscatori ca tine, nu nemti prosti care habar n-au cat costa un E46 320d Special Edition.
Turbina puteam sa o reconditionez dar e noua OEM cu garantie, poate maine ma schimb si nu o mai vand, asa ca nu mai fa tu afirmatii gratuite si mai cultiva-te ca vorbesti mult si degeaba.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

anaconda, devine gravă treaba.
ai salariu bun ca agent audi?
sau doar pe segemntul anti-bmw primeşti salariu?
serios, încetaţi...

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Agent Audi ? Am adus eu Audi in discutia asta sau am slavit Audi, am afirmat ceva fals despre Audi ? Din cate imi amintesc dar si citesc am discutat doar despre BMW si ceva despre fiabilitate, asa ca nu e complet offtopic :).

PS - salariul vine de la Audi, anti-bmw este doar o pasiune de a mea :D.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Bună pasiune, nu-i treaba mea, doar ţine-o puţin în frâu, te rog...

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Posesor bmw.
Nemtii au cateva modele care sunt foarte fiabile dar per total asiatici fac treaba buna, da-i incolo, iar japonezii per total sunt peste nemti, zic eu.
Am avut si un hyundai si am fost multumit de el. Nu sariti ca stiu ca-i coreana, dar n-am avut japoneza.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Drumurile sunt la fel pt toti ... iar legat de statistici, ma refeream la piata second hand. De exemplu ca modele sh disponibile la vanzare pe Autovit, gasesti 2000 de modele Bmw in timp ce Audi are putin peste 1200 (Merc ~ 1000). Asta spune destule despre preferintele cumparatorilor de masini sh. si de perceperea imaginii de marca a acestor branduri.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Eu gasesc mai relevant faptul ca Audi vinde ~ cat BMW worldwide decat numarul de masini la mana a opta de pe autovit.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

De cand are a face fiabilitatea cu numarul de masini vandute ?

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Intreaba-l pe Unlord nu pe mine.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Pe sistemul asta rolsurile sunt niste jafuri.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Te-ai gandit sa postezi doar de dragul de a o face ? E vorba de masini la pret similar, normal ca RR vinde putin ca au pret prohibitiv dar daca sunt 2 masini la acelasi pret (in aceeasi clasa) si una se vinde de 3 ori mai bine atunci e ceva la mijloc.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Bine hai sa coboram stacheta: tie ti se pare normal succesul pe care l-a avut cielo in Ro, cand practic opel era aceeasi masina dar consacrata si la diferenta nu prea mare de pret?
O fi omul evoluat dar spiritul de turma e foarte puternic.
Ti se pare normal ca la peste 12 ani de cand bmw face masini comprabile ca performante diesel-benizina, sa mai existe soferi care sa sustina ca benzina e miezul?

Daca nu stiai vanzarile reprezinta succesul marchetingului.

Am un amic in elvetia (un francez), destept in principiu dar care zice ca nu-si ia diesel ca e motorina mai scumpa laei (cu 10%), m-am chinuit sa-i explic mult si bine ca diferenta de consum e mai mare de 10% si el tot zice ca "dar pretul e mai mare" - acelasi lucru: spirit de turma.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Mi se pare normal sa sustina ca benzina e miezul din moment ce chiar este, si acum dar mai ales acum 12 ani unde dizal-urile erau si mai mult in spate. Nu mi se pare normal ca unul care se da cunoscator sa sustina invers.

BMW si nimeni altcineva nu face motoare diesel comparabile cu benzina la performanta, NICIODATA, decat daca compari un diesel turbo / biturbo cu un benzinar aspirat dar asta dovedeste ca esti | | cu domeniul auto incat sa sustii o astfel de gogoasa.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

BMW vs Audi în altă parte.
Japoneze vs germane, strict la obiect, că batem câmpii cu graţie inutil

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

Inchei cu off-topicul: m-am referit strict ce fabrica bmw: modelele diesel incep sa fie comparabile cu ce fabrica pe benzina de mai bine de 10 ani, cand s-a introdus geometria variabila la turbinele bmw(1998), atat.
Cat despre cunostintele mele despre motoare nu cred ca esti in masura sa spui nimic doar daca nu cumva mi-ai fost profesor.

Re: Fiabilitate: japoneze vs. germane
 

eu am o japoneza si anume un Mitshubishi Colt...
acum un an am avut o Octavia 2...
acum dupa ceva timp sunt de parere ca germanele sunt mai fiabile