Design LEXUS - dezbatere

[pimp_lex]

Ca sa nu mergem off-topic in \"masinile din vis\".......am creat subiectul asta pt discutie pe tema asta.......

Marian20 si FSF argumenteaza ca Lexus copie designul la toate modelele lor de la Mercedes si BMW...........dar ramane de vazut cu ce argumente vin ei.......

In primul rand, sunt curios cate stiti voi despre Lexus ca atare, si despre modele lor, istoria lor etc......deci sper totusi sa vad niste argumente valabile si documentate nu din burta.....

revin diseara

[ESPinoza]

hm poate au vrut sa zica ca lexusu e in america cum e mercedesu in europa

[Marian20]

\"SUCCESS CAN BE SUCH a luxurious prison. So pity the huddled masses of L.A. drivers--thousands of them--stuck inside BMW's sleek 3 series. For years they've been trapped in the stylish fortress of the world's most popular luxury sporting car. Is there no way out? * Now there is, and it comes from Lexus, a company that, like pod people, has perfected the formula for body-snatching market share: observe, adapt, move in, and start producing. In 1990, the first Lexus, the LS400, was launched as a Japanese version of the Mercedes S-class cruiser. Then, in 1998, the company released its V-8-powered assault on BMW's 5 series, the GS400, a sleek and taut facsimile with enough horsepower to rip the stitching off its leather cup holders.\"

\"The method is clear from the IS300's numbers, which have been lifted directly from the spec chart of the latest 3 series. Consider the car's dimensions: The IS is eight-tenths of an inch narrower, less than an inch higher, and one-tenth of an inch shorter than the 328Ci. The baby Lexus also shares with the Beemer 17-inch wheels, double control arms at all four corners, an in-line six-cylinder engine, and rear-wheel drive. Finally, with a $31,000 price base, the IS is positioned to split the difference between the entry-level 323 at $29,000 and the luxury 328Ci at $34,000.\"

\"Interior comfort is similar in both makes. I like the Lexus better in the short haul but long drives would probably give the edge to the 328.\" \"Trunk space is similar in both cars but the Lexus is not as useful, due to the rake of the rear window causing a limited trunk opening.\"
\"The guage illumination is insufficient. Lexus should have stayed with their traditional dash illumination instead of trying a poorly implemented copy of BMW amber\"
\"And Lexus' styling can hardly be called original. Other than the Bangle Bustle, I am not sure there's a German styling cue Lexus hasn't appropriated\"
\"That new GS does looks like a rip-off of a BMW 5, only by the time the GS is released the 5 will be almost two years old!\"
\"THE copycat car company has finally produced an original masterpiece. After more than a decade of building Japanese copies of European prestige cars, like the Benz S Class-inspired LS limousine and BMW 3-Series-rivalling IS sports sedan, Lexus's new SC430 convertible is a car it can claim as its own.
\"
astea sunt doar o parte din articolele gasite de mine.... daca mai trebuie mai adaug

[pimp_lex]

ok, in primul rand as vrea sa spun ca , inteleg intr-un fel opinia multor romani la adresa design Lexus, de asemena inteleg de ce au opinia care u au si nu sunt deloc ofensat si nu ii invinovatesc cu nimic pt lucrurile crezute de ei......

Motivele sunt mai multe, majoritatea se rezuma la faptul ca 1. lexus e o amsina foarte rar intalnita in Ro, deci contact cu ea este aproape inexistent.......2 ar fii ca in Europa se vand doar o mica parte din modele lexus, de aici si presupunerea ca toate modele copiaza pe unii si altii.......3. ar fii foarte limitata susra de informatie disponibila despre aceasta marca si modelele ei, mai ales istoric vorbind........si 4 ar fii imaginea pe care au au in Ro masinile germane, in special Mercedes si BMW, si imaginea \"proasta\" a masinilor japoneze in general

[pimp_lex]

Originally Posted by \"Marian20\"

\"SUCCESS CAN BE SUCH a luxurious prison. So pity the huddled masses of L.A. drivers--thousands of them--stuck inside BMW's sleek 3 series. For years they've been trapped in the stylish fortress of the world's most popular luxury sporting car. Is there no way out? * Now there is, and it comes from Lexus, a company that, like pod people, has perfected the formula for body-snatching market share: observe, adapt, move in, and start producing. In 1990, the first Lexus, the LS400, was launched as a Japanese version of the Mercedes S-class cruiser. Then, in 1998, the company released its V-8-powered assault on BMW's 5 series, the GS400, a sleek and taut facsimile with enough horsepower to rip the stitching off its leather cup holders.\"

\"The method is clear from the IS300's numbers, which have been lifted directly from the spec chart of the latest 3 series. Consider the car's dimensions: The IS is eight-tenths of an inch narrower, less than an inch higher, and one-tenth of an inch shorter than the 328Ci. The baby Lexus also shares with the Beemer 17-inch wheels, double control arms at all four corners, an in-line six-cylinder engine, and rear-wheel drive. Finally, with a $31,000 price base, the IS is positioned to split the difference between the entry-level 323 at $29,000 and the luxury 328Ci at $34,000.\"

\"Interior comfort is similar in both makes. I like the Lexus better in the short haul but long drives would probably give the edge to the 328.\" \"Trunk space is similar in both cars but the Lexus is not as useful, due to the rake of the rear window causing a limited trunk opening.\"
\"The guage illumination is insufficient. Lexus should have stayed with their traditional dash illumination instead of trying a poorly implemented copy of BMW amber\"
\"And Lexus' styling can hardly be called original. Other than the Bangle Bustle, I am not sure there's a German styling cue Lexus hasn't appropriated\"
\"That new GS does looks like a rip-off of a BMW 5, only by the time the GS is released the 5 will be almost two years old!\"
\"THE copycat car company has finally produced an original masterpiece. After more than a decade of building Japanese copies of European prestige cars, like the Benz S Class-inspired LS limousine and BMW 3-Series-rivalling IS sports sedan, Lexus's new SC430 convertible is a car it can claim as its own.
\"
astea sunt doar o parte din articolele gasite de mine.... daca mai trebuie mai adaug

ok.......pai articole din astea nu sunt greu de gasit...........idea este......au si dreptate, are sens ce spun ei, sunt argumentate cum trebuie?

Articolul de mai sus din pacate nu vine cu argumente valide de nici un fel.......se bazeaza strict pe opinia unuia si cam atat.......voi revenii la critici asupra unor afirmatii din acest articol mai tarziu.....

De asemea, nu are multe elemente care abordeaza subiectul nostru, adica Design exterior!........daca e sa discutam despre partea mecanica si altele, o vom putea face fara probleme dupa asta.....dar deocamdata sa ne rezumam la partea de design......


Primul pas este zic eu........sa vedem poze......nu? stiiti vorba acea, o imagine face cat 1000 cuvinte.........

O sa incep cu inceputul, adica cu o mica istorie si apoi poze.......

[pimp_lex]

deci, marca Lexus a fost creata de Toyota la sfarsitul anilor '80, in special pt piata americana, ca sa concureze direct cu celelalte marci de masini de lux din america care pana atunci erau putine , adica : Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac si Lincoln........

In segmentul celalalt al pietei (cu marci \"normale\") Toyota se bucura de un succes fantastic pe piata si de aceea au vrut sa intre pe piata masinilor de lux dar nu puteau cu numele \"toyota\"........

Oricum, acelasi lucru l-a facut si Nissan, creand Infiniti si Honda , mai mult sau mai putin creand Acura.......

Un lucru extrem de important care tre sa-l intelegeti pt ca e esential, este faptul ca in Japonia, Toyota producea de pe atunci foarte foarte multe modele de masini, din toate clasele, de toate genurile, care de mult concurau pe piata interna Japoneza cu celelalte marci japoneze si europene, dar toate aceste modele nu erau exportate nicaieri inafara Japoniei, deci pt pietele sua si europa, ele erau inexistente.........

Acest lucru e esential pt ca, masinile Lexus de fapt, nu au fost atunci create, doar Emblemele ca atare au fost noi, in rest absolut toate masinile lexus sunt de fapt niste masini Toyota de pe piata japoneza, cu embleme diferite........multi au impresia ca, Lexus a creat modelul LS pt americani special ca sa concureze cu Mercedes.........raspunsul este nu: Lexus LS-series exista deja in japonia, si exista inca, se numeste Toyota Celsior, si se vindea deja in Japonia dinainte de 1990, anul cand s-a inceput exportul spre america, dar Toyota a ales acest model (in loc de alte limuzine de lux precum Crown, Crown Majesta sau altele) , ca fiind cel mai potrivit pt piata americana, poate cel mai redutabil concurent pt ceilelalte masini din clasa respectiva de pe piata USA...........si acelasi lucru poate fii spus despre toate modele aparute sub emblema Lexus, mai putin suv-ul RX (la care revin mai tarziu)..........

Acum sa trecem la poze......

Voi pune poze cu fiecare model Lexus si cu competia lui din aceasi perioada de timp, de la Mercedes si BMW........si veti judeca singuri daca designurile sunt \"furate\" sau nu........dar nu uitati......toate aceste masini a fost facute pt piata Japoneza, ulterior exportate si pe piata Japoneza cred ca putem fii de acord, nu ar avea de ce sa copieze pe vreo europeana.....

[pimp_lex]

Clasa \"Mare\": Lexus LS-series, Mercedes S-class, Bmw 7-series

Perioda 1990-1994 (perioadele sunt luate dupa aparita de noi modele sau facelifturi din gama Lexus)


Lexus LS400


Bmw 7-series


Mercedes S-class


S-class s-a schimbat in 93, deci modelul 93-99:

[Turbo110]

Marian nu stu de unde ai scoso pe aia ca seamana cu BMW dar nu e asa !
Singura masina cxare seamana este limuzina si seamana cu S vezhi !

[pimp_lex]

Perioda 95-97

LS-series are un facelift subtil la partea din fata si partea din spate:

Lexus LS


BMW 7-series : model complet nou 1995-2002:


Mercedes S-class acelasi model 93-99 -pt poze vezi postul de mai sus

[pimp_lex]

Perioada 98-00

LS400 din nou are un usor Facelift:



BMW 7-series: acelasi model 95-01 - poze mai sus

Mercedes S-Class modelul se schimba in 99-prezent

[pimp_lex]

Perioada 01-prezent:

LS430 - model complet nou 01-prezent:



BMW 7-series - model complet nou 02-prezent



Mercedes S-Class - acelasi model 99-prezent - poze mai sus

[ESPinoza]

hm parca seamana putin ultimu s`class cu LS400 la bot nu?

[pimp_lex]

Si uite asa am incheiat clasa limuzine mari

Deci, cred ca se poate vedea foarte clar ca, cu designul lui BMW nu are nici in clin nici in maneca de nici o culoare.

CU S-class, parerea mea ca seamana urmatoarele elemente:

LS 98-00 seama la bot cu S-class 93-99
LS 01-present aduce putin la spate cu S-Class 93-99 si S-Class 99-prezent
LS 01-prezent are linia caroseriei (laterala) asemanatoare cu S-Class 93-99

Si cam acolo se opresc asemanarile , dupa ochii mei , intre aceste 3 modele.......

Maine vin comparatile de design la clasa \"mica-medie\"

[Turbo110]

Asta am incercat si eu sa zicc !

[yo]

am auzit si eu ca asta copie pe asta, etc, dar chiar daca ar copia, diferentele sunt prea mare ca sa-ti dai seamna, sau sa zici uite asta e identica... daca analizati modele pe o perioada de sa zicem 5-10 ani o sa vedeti ca majoritatea masinilor au cam aceasi structura la caroserie, adika in ani 50-60 era la moda faruri patrate, 60-70 s-a skimbat la rotunde , sau dimensiunile masinii etc.
Oricum cred ca unele companii \"copie\" dar ma rog, e greu sa dovedesti in tribunal ca domnii de la cutare companie ti-a copiat designul etc )

my $0.02